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Similarity of plucked melodies in trance music
TranceElevation
PostPosted: 23 July 2010 - 03:08:56 (172)  Reply with quote
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jetflag wrote:
a98 wrote:
jetflag wrote:
a part of the reason that melodic theme's are recycled/slightly altered is due to the fact that experimenting in trance/ abstrahering melodies simply doesn't hit it with the larger crowd..


exactly!

it's the listeners who eat up this stuff and even encourage producers to keep doing the same things with their praising comments. a lot of people in the more mainstream oriented forums (and here aswell) are now laughing at this, but next week they'll go bananas on the exact same riff again when they hear it on tatw etc..

why would producers want to be original and experiment, when majority of listeners don't seems to care about them, and only want to hear the same generic stuff over and over again.


you hit the nail at the spot. I tried to create an "own sound album" back in 2007 with strictly no vec loops or nexus presets what so ever, and mainly unknown/self made samples/sounds. Although the album saw a release in 2008 and even did fairly ok in the sales, it turned oblivion simply because the kick-drum doenst sound asot and its thus not suitable for radio.

a solution to the problem would be to gather every producer who agrees that the cntrlC/cntrlV phenomenon is a problem, and start a new underground scene, which is something the original trance was formed in.


But all this is also OUR FAULT. Trance.nu and in general we as a users have a lot of power to promote original artist, but why many of us are more oriented to bash rather than being propositive? (and I include my self in the description).

I remember a guy came here once saying he wanted to make original/real trance...he posted an example of his work...and I have to say there were some good elements I haven't heard before, but still not really impressive...the majority started to be like: hey noob, this sounds like the rest...hey this is shit....etc...the guy never came back.
I was the only one who said that beyond his fail is still appreciable his intention to make something different. We could give him some advices on how to improve his work before starting to attack him.
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GreenOctopus
PostPosted: 23 July 2010 - 04:04:52 (211)  Reply with quote
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JOEBloe wrote:

GreenOctopus wrote:
Kind of blasts a gaping hole through the paper thin praise that trance is "all about melodies", doesn't it?


So what is it about you tell me?


Trance is two components:

-Tension/suspense and release (or collapsing in more tribal/progressive wings)
-Nuanced, subtle elements contrasting with forefront elements that blend together, thus explaining the more hypnotizing tracks

That's really all a good piece of trance music is, with melody maybe adding a secondary component (it does have to sound harmonically pleasing, though, but having a pretentiously long and drawn out complex melody doesn't alone make a great piece.) It's what you do with that melody that ultimately matters, like varying the intensity, and swapping elements around so you can trick your listener with what seems like repetition, only that you're actually subtly adjusting the overall picture. We think of it has having varying levels of intensity. Either way, it's why even the most harmonically simple tracks gain so much traction and, yet, stand out as unique. So, no, trance most certainly is not all, or even mostly, about melody. This is not to confuse my thoughts and say that I don't appreciate nice melodies. That's not it at all. But seriously, I could get over the riffs if there was more to offer than that.

So let's add another wrinkle here, which gets little notice, I've..., well, noticed. Trance, on the premise of tension and release, has a high shock factor. After a while, you start to count your watch to each new motion, and all the secrets are out. The cover is blown. Darn. Because uplifting trance and tech trance have paralyzingly high reliance on achieving this shock factor, the amount of impact it has on your veteran listener gradually drops. It's why even simple chord progressions worked for so long, because they could get away with it if the shock factor was powerful enough. Now, *sppput* it's largely gone, and you have to express lots of ingenuity to bring back the deeply tensive factor. Or... if you're into the hypnotic game, your focus on tension is less necessary and your intent, then, is to bring your listener into a mesmerizing zone. Different challenges, to be sure, but hardly as instantly gratifying.

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jetflag
PostPosted: 23 July 2010 - 15:03:34 (669)  Reply with quote
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agreed with Octopus on a lot of points there, ^

Thought: Trance and/or uplifting trance for that matter have certain set of "rules" to for instance make it easy mixable by dj's: 1 minute basic beat, 2 mins buildup+ lead, 1/ 2 minute breakdown, 1 minute hook etc. might be interresting to see what would happen if we forgot about these rules for a change, and just focus on the idea of how to get your listener into a trancelike state.

and what to think of the tempo? why not put it @ 100/ 200 bpm for a change?

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dancemania
PostPosted: 23 July 2010 - 19:53:10 (870)  Reply with quote
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Wow! That's insane! lol

Ah, let me post this one as well:


Youtube link

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Girish
PostPosted: 23 July 2010 - 19:59:57 (874)  Reply with quote
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teoulennon wrote:
quote from a (all?) non-trance listening friend: "how do you listen to that stuff, it all sounds the same to me."


I've heard that a hundred million times. My usual answer is to completely forget
about the beats.
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Girish in the mix with Armin van Buuren
a98
PostPosted: 23 July 2010 - 21:50:54 (952)  Reply with quote
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jetflag wrote:
might be interresting to see what would happen if we forgot about these rules for a change, and just focus on the idea of how to get your listener into a trancelike state.

and what to think of the tempo? why not put it @ 100/ 200 bpm for a change?


I can guarantee you a track like that would not get any attention at all. First of all none of the trance labels would even sign it. And if you finally find a small/crazy enough label to release it nobody will care cause it's too slow/fast and doesn't have a breakdown :P

As an occasional reader in some of the more mainstream oriented trance forums, 99% of people there are all about the breakdowns.

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jetflag
PostPosted: 24 July 2010 - 19:20:21 (847)  Reply with quote
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a98 wrote:
jetflag wrote:
might be interresting to see what would happen if we forgot about these rules for a change, and just focus on the idea of how to get your listener into a trancelike state.

and what to think of the tempo? why not put it @ 100/ 200 bpm for a change?


I can guarantee you a track like that would not get any attention at all. First of all none of the trance labels would even sign it. And if you finally find a small/crazy enough label to release it nobody will care cause it's too slow/fast and doesn't have a breakdown :P

As an occasional reader in some of the more mainstream oriented trance forums, 99% of people there are all about the breakdowns.


Well maybe it should be popular at all, it just needs to be original and inspirational.

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am153
PostPosted: 24 August 2010 - 13:39:22 (610)  Reply with quote
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I fucking love SKYOCEAN
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SecondHand
PostPosted: 24 August 2010 - 23:45:30 (031)  Reply with quote
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actually Armin van Buuren emphasized on that by making his weekly two-hour-long tune : It's called A State of Trance
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stino
PostPosted: 25 August 2010 - 12:40:06 (569)  Reply with quote
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hmm

it happens in all musical genres, and its what defines a genre: typical elements, structures, sounds and melodies being recycled, rebuild and reused in slightly different structures and soundpatches.

To me all those tracks use the same type of main melody structure, but all work it out slightly different, with a different bassline, different chord progressions and other elements, and thus are different tracks.

And in the end, this type of melody structure works for uplifting trance. The only thing is that the past 1.5 years there have been quite a lot of tracks released with this melody structure.

I see my track Behind your Smile with Kathy Fisher listed, which is fine to me, but its a totally different track than for example something like Adam Nicky - Slider.

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FJ_trance
PostPosted: 27 August 2010 - 17:31:27 (771)  Reply with quote
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Cool vid wink
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frostdude1
PostPosted: 27 August 2010 - 21:16:41 (928)  Reply with quote
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a59 wrote:
The similarity in Trance goes beyond just plucks, it's a dirty business (Creativity wise), none of the current 'scene producers' deserve any respect, it's so sad to see how some people (mostly YT enthusiastic Trance fanatics that weep by the sound of a G or D minor then instantly give the track maker a God of trance status after the YT hype they rip off the track to their ipod head to their bed in black silk socks and pink undies listening to the new found gold and start seeing unicorns fly.) a lot of today's so called producers are over-appreciated some of them base their entire tracks on ripped and alternated chords/movie scores whatever pre-finished classic or not classic composition with a possibility of being manipulated, i'm not claiming to have inside sources but anyone slightly involved in the mighty production world of Trance can tell you the he knows a producer or 2 that shamelessly admit ripping off melodies from other tracks, off-scene productions or not it doesn't matter, it can be anything with the E factor involved, after all that's what trance used to be all about until they took over "How else you think i could come up with so many tunes" that's what i was told from a producer that debuts a 'hit' on ASOT at least once a month.
This has been said a billion times before, there's only a few amount of productions with some effort being put on the rest is garbage.


Yupp this is so true. This is why I've found myself listening to less and less trance over the years. It really does start to sound the same and now this video proves that we're not crazy for thinking that.

There are far too many producers out there now and labels need to stop signing them for every little choon they hand in every week

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TranceLives
PostPosted: 28 August 2010 - 08:02:00 (376)  Reply with quote
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I BELEIVE IN MIRACLES.......


IN THE OCEAN!!!!!!!!!

UNDERNEATH THE SKKKKKKKIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



tunage tunage tunage tunage tunage
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KulshanRecord
PostPosted: 04 October 2010 - 21:15:18 (927)  Reply with quote
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You guys can thank the easy availability of VSTs like Nexus for this... any schmuck with Nexus can make a pro-SOUNDING tune... even when they have no music background, or business MAKING music, and get signed to a label. And end up diluting the scene, as we see here. :P

imo, anyway
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KulshanRecord is Chillin'... LOUDLY
jetflag
PostPosted: 04 October 2010 - 23:44:53 (031)  Reply with quote
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KulshanRecord wrote:
You guys can thank the easy availability of VSTs like Nexus for this... any schmuck with Nexus can make a pro-SOUNDING tune... even when they have no music background, or business MAKING music, and get signed to a label. And end up diluting the scene, as we see here. :P

imo, anyway


agreed

sky0cean is fucking epic though, gotta love those off-tone vocals tunage

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