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Why keeping at 125-130bpm and not 135-140?
djcosta
PostPosted: 29 March 2009 - 19:25:52 (851)  Reply with quote
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In the Trance industry the majority of the tracks realised are at around 135(+-5).

We all know that 125-130Bpm tracks are more groovy and more accessible to the scene,easier to mix and the song doesn't get so complicated from its own melody.

On the otherside,in which a trance song is made at 135 Bpm,loses its energy
and sometimes a really good song is so boring to listen.

I noticed that as I tried to slow down the BPM to certain songs (Master Tempo),
I realised that some of these songs became so boring.

What's your opinion?
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djcosta traaance
YonnyCage
PostPosted: 29 March 2009 - 19:30:55 (854)  Reply with quote
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i dig it when PvD plays 145+ grin2 at least i used to do, havent heard a PvD set since 2003

edit: on a more serious note, if u ever mix infront of people ull notice that speed isnt really necesary if ur able to play it groovy. I rarely go above 127-128

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djcosta
PostPosted: 29 March 2009 - 19:39:14 (860)  Reply with quote
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hehe Nice tip!

But how can i make for example these 5 songs sound groovy?

Virtual Vault - Definition
Sied Van Riel - MME
Mark Sherry Ft Outbust - A Star Within A Star (Mark Sherry's Trance Energy Mix)
DJ Eco - Lost Angeles (Original Remix)
Heatbeat - Push Over (Original Mix)

Sorry i don't have links i suppose you know some of these or maybe find on youtube.

I haven't tried these songs but most likely slowing the BPM with ruin the energy.I hope these 5 are in fast BPM since they are random examples...
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kuantium
PostPosted: 29 March 2009 - 19:54:51 (871)  Reply with quote
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Think it has a lot to do with perception of tempo. A slow track can sound faster if the percussion and other parts are arranged in a certain way & vice versa, as you describe they have a driving energy.

I'm not really sure how you can make tunes sound more groovy by altering the tempo. Personally I'm quite a fan of sets that get gradually faster, with the groovy tracks with chunky baselines at the start, and the harder tracks near the end happy
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djcosta
PostPosted: 29 March 2009 - 20:19:30 (888)  Reply with quote
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kuantium wrote:
Think it has a lot to do with perception of tempo. A slow track can sound faster if the percussion and other parts are arranged in a certain way & vice versa, as you describe they have a driving energy.

I'm not really sure how you can make tunes sound more groovy by altering the tempo. Personally I'm quite a fan of sets that get gradually faster, with the groovy tracks with chunky baselines at the start, and the harder tracks near the end happy



+100000!!

I really like to make that kind of sets!
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djcosta traaance
Kruse
PostPosted: 29 March 2009 - 20:38:55 (902)  Reply with quote
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To me, it is all about building up the energy. I like to put together sets that start around 130 and finish at about 140. That way I can open up with deep, more bassline driven tunes and end with more melodic, uplifting stuff.

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Jezper
PostPosted: 29 March 2009 - 21:31:35 (938)  Reply with quote
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kuantium wrote:
Think it has a lot to do with perception of tempo. A slow track can sound faster if the percussion and other parts are arranged in a certain way & vice versa, as you describe they have a driving energy.


Yeah I think so too. Listen to Iio - Rapture (AvB Remix) for instance, it's 132 bpm and it always sounds faster that that.
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carpanafilms
PostPosted: 29 March 2009 - 22:29:37 (978)  Reply with quote
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Loads of the tracks I've been buying lately have been in the 135-140 range. But I agree with everything that has been said already. Keep it low to start, work it up later on.
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Subtle
PostPosted: 29 March 2009 - 23:41:36 (028)  Reply with quote
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Changing the tempo of a track is like degrading the quality of it.

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carpanafilms
PostPosted: 29 March 2009 - 23:44:58 (031)  Reply with quote
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Subtle wrote:
Changing the tempo of a track is like degrading the quality of it.


I think that in some cases changing the tempo of the track can make it better. I dont have any examples that I can think of, but I'm sure most of the time you're right. thumbsup
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Lydhus
PostPosted: 29 March 2009 - 23:53:54 (037)  Reply with quote
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I like to pitch down all trance to around 130bpm, sometims under. I like how the melodies are played in that bpm. It lacks energy that way, but then again, you can hear how beautiful a trance track in 140bpm++ can sound like.

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bulletdodger
PostPosted: 30 March 2009 - 00:07:46 (047)  Reply with quote
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Hhmmm ... I agree with the majority of the posts above but it all comes down to the production quality . Today's tech-house is more cleaner than today's >135 trance .. if you compare the 2002 trance for example and slow it down you would get the 2009 tech-house .. OK , similar not the same thing , but you will hear how clean it was back then

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Kruse
PostPosted: 30 March 2009 - 00:14:46 (051)  Reply with quote
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Subtle wrote:
Changing the tempo of a track is like degrading the quality of it.


If you're good and pick the proper timing and tracks to adjust, it shouldn't appear to degrade anything at all.

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kuantium
PostPosted: 30 March 2009 - 02:12:36 (133)  Reply with quote
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Subtle wrote:
Changing the tempo of a track is like degrading the quality of it.


Well surely by a couple of bpm's you can't really tell the difference. Also depends what you are altering - people are talking about pitch now, and i'm getting confused.

You can:
Resample i.e. play the the track slower of faster (like the pitch adj on a turntable)
Change pitch, but preserve tempo.
Change tempo, but preserve pitch.

I would agree that the latter two are degrading, especially if over used. I wouldn't say that changing speed (resample in digital domain) is particular degrading when it's only a small change.
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djcosta
PostPosted: 30 March 2009 - 05:37:09 (275)  Reply with quote
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For example.

We have a nice Tech-trance track : W&W - Countach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLprHB3WzVM

It is written at 137 BPM.

I slowed it to 128-130 and it sounded awful.I would prefer to hear some minimal rather than this.

I tried it with several tracks and the vast majority failed.

I know the percussion is very important for example you can listen Ernesto vs Bastian Thrill (132 BPM).

Still even some tracks are ok to listen after they are slowed down you know something is missing....
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