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NEed Tips on producing Uplifting trance
Halcyon_Rave
PostPosted: 01 March 2008 - 23:21:18 (014)  Reply with quote
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Just like the title says.... I need tips for producing full, complete, uplifting trance....

here are some samples of what I'm talking about,,
Above & Beyond- Far from in Love [Oliver Smith Late Night Remix] tunage

Youtube link

JOC feat Audrey Gallagher- Big Sky (Original Mix) tunage

Youtube link

Andrelli Feat. Hila Imagine (Mike Nicol Remix) tunage

Youtube link


just to name a few...

it's just something about uplifting trance that's different from other genres, that I like... it's just a lot of.... sounds.... or something.... I don't know..... When I make songs... they just don't feel complete... some of you have heard my "music" sad smilie before, and you know what i'm talking about.... i feel not very confident about my "music"... because I KNOW it's missing that uplifting element that I want everyone to feel... but I don't know how to create it.... crying

I want to get SERIOUS with this music producing thing now... so
what I want to know is how to make sounds that would appear in uplifting trance... and really just in general how to compose an uplifting trance song. (Like what is the structure and so on....)
Any help is appreciated.. cheers

oh yeah... and Orjan's "La Guitarra" was really inspiring as well... so Governor, if you're in the forums, I want some advice from you too!!!!
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Halcyon_Rave Slowly creeping back into electronic music... with minimal!
padams
PostPosted: 02 March 2008 - 00:11:44 (049)  Reply with quote
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Really, the only answer is that practice makes perfect. I know, that doesn't really help much, but you shouldn't expect to sit down and produce a amazing tune on your first try, or first dozen trys, really. From my personal experience, it took several years of playing around and familiarizing myself with programs before I could create something even slightly worthy of being listened to. I am by no means even a good producer, but I definitely feel like the trick of the game is to be persistent and to continue to produce and learn the ropes. So, don't loose confidence even though it may seem that at first your productions are going nowhere, because you will improve with time.

Really, one of the best ways to improve can be done by just listening to your favorite producers/tracks and trying your best to emulate that sounds in those particular songs. Once, you've familiarized yourself with your software more this will become easier, so again that just goes back to the practicing.

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autodial
PostPosted: 02 March 2008 - 00:33:51 (065)  Reply with quote
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whooooooa somebody is in a rush. puh wasn't it just last month that you made your first song?

i don't mean to burst your bubble or anything, but i wouldn't get too excited. i think that it's extremely unlikely, if not impossible, for somebody thats new to both music production and fruityloops, to produce something that can even come close to be considered "full" or "complete" or even "uplifting."

i'm not underestimating you or trying to insult your skills... i swear, i'm not. it is very obvious that you're passionate about this. and i understand that too.

but you're still very unexperienced with music production, and trance is a fusion of so many different styles, ideas and concepts that need to be learned and enhanced over time, and i don't think or know if you can learn them on the fly just by practicing "uplifting trance", especially when you're still very unfamiliar in music production. you need to learn effects, melody construction, how bass works/should works, mastering, transitions, and creative concepts. and you need to work at these and make various adjustments and it can take awhile but eventually you'll find a solid groove and you'll become very flexible in your sounds, and you won't have to rely on presets like i do, and you can make whatever your mind can think up.

i wouldn't exactly call myself experienced or an authority on music production. but i'm amateur enough to know that you can't just go from your self-proclaimed "joke songs" to quality uplifting trance over night. i've been trying my shot at trance for a few good months now, and i've made some definite improvements, but i'm still not at 'quality, complete, full, uplifting trance.' but i do admit that since i started, i've learned more that has enhanced what i can do now. but i may also add that prior to my attempts, i've toyed in flstudio before so i had a basic idea of what i wanted to set out to do. but i never made anything good, i just played around. and i guess thats where it all starts.

trance sounds as great as it does because it's heavily layered. producers put a lot of time into little things: effects and small drumkits and light pads and background melodies and even a simple string that sound simple in isolation but play much larger roles in the track when it all comes together. your tracks probably don't sound like theirs because you're probably not using dozens of different samples.

also, not to mention you're using basic fl plugins. amirite?

if you really want to try and make complete, full, uplifting trance, you'll need to start at the beginning: practice making basslines and quality beats. and don't half-ass it, put serious time and patience and effort into it, and you'll start to see what new things you learn and in what ways it will pay off. then go on to making melodies, and then, building off of that melody, make other sounds that compliment the sound of your track. put effects like flangers and reverb and delay on. using some sound effects. these are necessities you'll have to learn, so you might as well dive head first into it all.

you need to learn the basics before you can even come close to the advanced stuff.
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autodial YOU DUN GOOF'D.
Halcyon_Rave
PostPosted: 02 March 2008 - 01:26:09 (101)  Reply with quote
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Sigh....

Yeah, I know it sounds like i'm being impatient... because it's not the first time i've asked for help like this.... I was only hoping someone would offer me some advice on maybe what kind of vsts to use (freeware of course) or maybe some tips on some other things.....

it's just that... I wanna produce my first radio choon before I get into college... which I'll be starting in August....

and it's frustrating cause I KNOW I can do it I KNOW it's possible....... the music's in my head... but I just dunno how to get it out......... angry smilie I practice like hell though... i swear i do..... i just don't really see much progress....

(1000th post ftw cheers _)
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Halcyon_Rave Slowly creeping back into electronic music... with minimal!
autodial
PostPosted: 02 March 2008 - 01:42:54 (113)  Reply with quote
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Halcyon_Rave wrote:
Sigh....

Yeah, I know it sounds like i'm being impatient... because it's not the first time i've asked for help like this.... I was only hoping someone would offer me some advice on maybe what kind of vsts to use (freeware of course) or maybe some tips on some other things.....

it's just that... I wanna produce my first radio choon before I get into college... which I'll be starting in August....

and it's frustrating cause I KNOW I can do it I KNOW it's possible....... the music's in my head... but I just dunno how to get it out......... angry smilie I practice like hell though... i swear i do..... i just don't really see much progress....

(1000th post ftw cheers _)


by august? thats not much time...
and radio quality is pretty high class. you would probably need a bit more than fruity and maybe some expensive plugins for that uhm_positive

try sytrus, it's a fl plugin, it's not that bad for fl standards
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autodial YOU DUN GOOF'D.
autodial
PostPosted: 02 March 2008 - 01:44:07 (113)  Reply with quote
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wait. you've been using that haven't you? hmm.

if you want a start, just fool around and make a bassline. and from that bassline, build a melody around it. this is how i get started. or vice versa of that method.

and it, for me, always starts with either that melody or bassline. and pads will work too, they're great for deciding what notes you want the melody to revolve around.
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autodial YOU DUN GOOF'D.
ivandulava
PostPosted: 02 March 2008 - 01:55:55 (122)  Reply with quote
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There are standard things for trance. 4/4 kick, offbeat bass (at-least used to be), offbeat closed high hat, clap on every other kick and such. You can learn that by listening to the songs you listed, copy the structure, learn from examples. Most important part to make it uplifting is the melody. So if you have it in your head, open up FL, bust out your synth and play the melody, record it, quantize and fix it so its flawless and there u go. You can find the right sound later, as long as you got your notes down. I generally do this with piano, cause its nice and clean and later swap it to some other sound. When u put it all together it may not sound as "pro" as the stuff armin or other people make, but it will be a good start to get where u want to go. The only thing that makes theirs fuller is the effects, and way more layers and sounds, as well as reverb's, white noise and other things you will learn later. Some of my tracks like Anomia have about 40-50 layers in the end.

Basically, copy the structure and make an "uplifiting" melody and it should at least get you one step closer to where you wanna be.

Hope that helps.
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Halcyon_Rave
PostPosted: 02 March 2008 - 05:03:43 (252)  Reply with quote
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Thanks. That helps some... and autodial... that's some good advice as well grin
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Halcyon_Rave Slowly creeping back into electronic music... with minimal!
mizzar
PostPosted: 02 March 2008 - 05:53:13 (286)  Reply with quote
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I am new to producing trance as well, but I have been a dj for a while now (3 years) and I have been to so many trance festivals/parties that I have learned a lot just by listening to what I am mixing. I also know a very good producer (which I don't want to mention because I don't know if he would like it or not), but he has been very helpful. It all starts with knowing the basic structure (4/4, bassline, main melody, etc), then you need to play around a lot with your software, and all those things already mentioned in the previous posts. BUT, I also think a very important part is the inspiration. You need it, or else all you are going to do is crap. Fortunately, inspiration is another thing you can practice as well (and not, as many think, something that happens randomly). Go to the beach to watch the sunset, think about your girlfriend, listen to your favorite tunes of all time, etc. This WILL make you produce more sentimental (and, many times, uplifting) trance.
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derail
PostPosted: 02 March 2008 - 11:38:04 (526)  Reply with quote
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August is an unrealistic timeframe. Maybe if you spent 12 hours a day, every day, in the studio, just focusing on learning, but even then, you'd very likely burn out.

1000 posts already? It seems you're spending a whole lot of time on the internet that you could be spending producing. By all means, come onto these forums, read some posts, learn things, but keep your eyes on your goal - you should be spending a lot more time on production than on other things, if you want to get good at it in a hurry.

I'd recommend you spend the next month in your studio and experiment with sounds, effects, really get to know the tools you're working with. Then come back with more detailed, focused questions, rather than "how do I mix uplifting trance so everything sounds great"? That's like asking a thousand questions all at once. To answer the question would require several books.

Generally producers don't create anything "radio-worthy" (well, let's call it "top notch") for at least the first two years, generally it takes even longer than that. But if you're really keen and stay focused, 2 years. Be prepared for a lot of frustration at not being able to create the sounds you hear in your head. Stay at it and you will get there.
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Idonotlikebroccoli
PostPosted: 02 March 2008 - 16:33:57 (731)  Reply with quote
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Practice and have fun while doing so. And don't expect to sound like Anjunabeats in a few months. Try sounding like yourself.

Making music isn't going to be rewarding if so much focus is put on sounding like someone else. I know that I wouldn't feel good if I tried to create an equally good sounding version of Transa's "Supernova" for example.

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Earthraeder
PostPosted: 02 March 2008 - 18:38:14 (818)  Reply with quote
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One thing you could do is listen to a great track in the same style, and just copy it, from the ground up. Start with the melodies you can hear, than the beats, and get it all as similar as you can. Then you can start tweaking the sounds to make it even more similar, add fill-ins and filter sweeps and whatever. When you're done with this, you'll have completed a song, even if it's just a copy. You said you already have the melodies in your head. Well then, why not exchange the melodies in your copied project for your own? Then you could change the beats as well, etc.

One other tip is to write down your structures on paper. You're much less likely to fall into the "loop trap" if you're working with pen and paper. Then, when your arrangement is done, create it in your computer.
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Mossotti
PostPosted: 02 March 2008 - 19:18:53 (846)  Reply with quote
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The only advice I can offer is to remember to have fun with what your doing...
Seems like your getting frustrated... Take a deep breath, no matter what you create now... if your still at it in 5 years you'll look back and laugh at your noobery... Have fun, practice and give yourself time to grow as an artist..

I am in the same boat, all I have known is visual art all my life and made a profession of it... Now, this whole crazy mixed up fun world of sound has me captivated... I never cared how the sausage got made... I have a lot of catching up to do, I enjoy the time learning and exploring...

And yes 1000 posts, well done, ample time and energy could have been directed towards your practice..

Oh yeah and dont forget to have fun !!!


Mossotti
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Igneous01
PostPosted: 03 March 2008 - 00:17:49 (054)  Reply with quote
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I think the best possible way for you to learn is to listen to more uplifting trance music and see how it is structured, and being able to dissect certain sounds so u can hear what i really going on in the background and be like 'o thats just a simple pad thats at a low frequency and its on the same note, now i know why it sounds whole', that kind of stuff... and be sure to experiment alot too. I started out making joke songs and experimenting with mixing and fx and etc...... the important thing to do is to allow yourself some time to pick up these things rather than trying to cram your head with all these new concepts.

I use fl studio 7 as well and really it doesnt matter what sequencer or /daw u use because the structure and technique for trance making is exactly the same... in a way... but there is room for creativity. Ive only been at it for almost 9 months now... and i can say i learned alot that i understand how to make whole and quality songs, it takes passion and inspiration, not to mention soul;)

good luck, youll get there as long as you dont quit;)


myspace: http://www.myspace.com/igneousnem
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Igneous01 trance is alot like soccer.... greatness only happens once every 4 years...96-00-04-08
TheDigitalInsomniac
PostPosted: 04 March 2008 - 18:55:36 (830)  Reply with quote
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I've already spoken to you halcyon. so you know my concept of things. But heres somethign i forgot to mention. Yes ive been producing 6 years and a little over one year of trance parallel to my hip-hop. i spend nearly 12 hours almost every day since 2002 to make great hip-hop. i missed out on many things, cause i was THAT dedicated. but i realized something. although you need to use up alot of time. whenever you get frustrated or dont like what your doing. save it.... sit down, watch tv or something. or listen to favorite tunes and take a walk or something. look at the shore. look at sunset. watch a movie. see im learning still to make trance. heres a few things that helped me improve. i watched movies and took a listen to sound scores. and again and again. (which helped me create pads) i listened to tribal music/ taiko music. any sort of percussion music to help me improve my percussion. i listened to other forms of electronica like industrial and ambiance to help me grow synth wise. (Industrial being hard lead, Ambiance soft synth) then i read a book on surround sound... which helped me in mixing reverberation and panning and a few other effects. im going to start listening to more rock so i can get an idea of disticnt basslines. and ima go into salsa and latin music so i can get an idea of brass and a little more into percussion. not only did it help me making hip-hop but trance as well. cause music is just hybrids of other genres. I listen to trance and dance every day so i study my fav orite tunes. eventually when you learn to tweak your ear you'll notice what sounds go where and what wave length they used. take for example i showed you yesterday. one of the most typical sounds found in trance. and my favorite wave. The Supersaw/Hypersaw (or just the saw really). how many ways you can tweak it and how many songs use it. what im saying is a little more technical than what these guys were saying. kinda mimic the sounds in other songs. mimic. then improvise.

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TheDigitalInsomniac bleh
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