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Demo Track (currently in progress)
Indekka
PostPosted: 03 October 2010 - 07:31:41 (355)  Reply with quote
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Like the title says. i figured since its been exactly 1 month since i posted my last finished track, which is rubbish compared to this one, i'd go ahead and give anyone willing, a taste of my current project. Its not completely "polished" but if gives you a general idea of the feel im going for in the track. Give me some input if you have any.

It includes so far:
1. Intro
2. Verse 1
3. Chorus 1

I'm using the following Daw and Plugins:
Ableton

Plugins:
Omnisphere
FM8
Sylenth
Kontakt 4
PSP Vintage Warmer
FabFilter Pro Q
ArtsAcoustic Reverb
Trillian

I'm not liking what sound cloud did to the quality of my track, but it gives you guys an idea. Thanks for the listen in advance.

Im currently four months into when i first decided to start learning how to produce. from scratch.

LINK: http://soundcloud.com/indekka/sould-flux-v-2
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varroa
PostPosted: 03 October 2010 - 10:33:53 (481)  Reply with quote
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believe me soundcloud is the least of your worries puh
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varroa Portfolio: www.varroae.com SOUNDCLOUD: www.soundcloud.com/djvarroa
Atlantis_AR
PostPosted: 03 October 2010 - 11:20:24 (514)  Reply with quote
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I'm trying to figure out what advice to give here, or at least where to begin. Will just do my usual run-through and hopefully not get too stuck...

The sweep sound at the start is pushing the level a bit compared to the kick, you might consider turning it down ever so slightly.

The synth at the start you fade in to the bass with a high-pass is probably dropping a bit too far and sounds a little bassy compared to the kick. I actually thought it was a mid-bass at first, but I now hear it's the main bass. It sounds alright now, but the drop in is perhaps a bit disconcerting. The bass sounds quite muddy actually, and that's not the only thing...

The claps don't sound that great in my opinion. Maybe you could layer it with a lower snare or something?

Re bass muddiness, try cutting the intro bass at 196 Hz. The deeper bass I'm not so sure about yet.

Make sure you're filtering out the bass of the lead synth that fades in with a high-pass filter, and try scooping out a bit at 392 Hz with a broad Q.

Turn your hats up and try adding more.

High-pass your bass as well around 20 Hz to remove the offset.

The gated synth at 1:40 is actually mixed really well. It sits perfectly in the mids there. I wouldn't change much apart from maybe turning them up slightly.

Not sure whether I'm hearing the same synths as before but as a rule of them, almost always high-pass any synths that don't need bass frequencies to clear up the bottom end.

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Indekka
PostPosted: 03 October 2010 - 12:35:11 (566)  Reply with quote
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Right, so to clarify you are saying add compression on the Sweep to even it out, which i completely forgot. My newb mistake lol.

And you are saying i should cut a little bit of the lows out of the bass synth at the start of the track correct?

The claps are gated with reverb. On the parts where the claps clap in a row of 3.. there is some gated white noise.. You think maybe I should just gate the white noise on all the claps to give it more space? Give me some examples of what i should do because as it stands the claps are actually two layers of the same clap, one on top of the other, with one clap having a gated reverb effect to give it more space.. I think you might be talking about the actual sucking effect that is occuring in the claps which i noticed, and that annoyed me too. unfortunately that "sucking" sound is rooted in the actual clap recording. The remedy for that would be to change the clap all together which im fine with.

Explain to me in detail if possible, the actual technique of layering a snare with a clap just for clarification. The idea makes sense. However, an example would make things easier :P.

On the hats you are saying I should make them shuffle more, with more rhythm, because right now they feel a bit "empty" and dont occupy enough space right? I was getting that feeling when listening to the track right now also. Also, if the hats weren't loud enough.. its because im mixing on Yamaha Mdsp5's or whatever they are called and they have a horrible nack for being extremely bright on the high ends. Can't wait to get some krk rokit 8's :P.

Atlantis, thanks a lot for the feedback. I really, really appreciate it. You clearly have knowledge about putting and mixing a track together. I'm going to be adding one maybe two more elements to the beginning of the track, eqing it some more, as well as doing the things I listed above. O

Varroa, if you are being sarcastic...kewl??? haha, not really :P , but please give me a detailed description of what you heard in terms of flaws. I've listened to your stuff and it sounds good, so i know you have experience with this stuff. It would help speed up my mixing and that whole process of getting things to sit well together if you could elaborate, if you saw it possible.
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PassiePassion
PostPosted: 03 October 2010 - 19:45:40 (865)  Reply with quote
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Explain to me in detail if possible, the actual technique of layering a snare with a clap just for clarification

Layering a snare drum below a clap is easy
Just load a snare drum set in your sampler
And play the keys on your keyboard to hear which snare fits best with the clap
Then play the same melody with the snare that you play on the clap
You can copy the sequence and change the note hight too
But i would always advise to play the snare on your keyboard
Cos if you play then you can hear which sounds better

Or a short hit on the key board to get a short note
Or hold the key a lil longer to get the full sample playing
If you copy the clap and only change the note hight
Then you miss out on trying the different note lengths

If you made the snare sequence
Then just put it below the clap at lower volume than the clap
Ones the snare starts together with the excising clap
Then you'll hear that the clap has a lot more ' Body"

Tip
You can even start with a closed hihat on the clap position
Or even layer various closed hats during the buildup of the song
And then put a real clap or snare drum on top of it on the climax part
You don't need much volume on the bottom of the layer
So closed hihats can be useful as a clap too
Especially in songs where you don't want to get the track too aggressive
But for body like in this case a snare works best like Atlantis AR recommended wink

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Atlantis_AR
PostPosted: 03 October 2010 - 22:58:45 (999)  Reply with quote
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Indekka wrote:
Right, so to clarify you are saying add compression on the Sweep to even it out, which i completely forgot. My newb mistake lol.

No way! Compression reduces dynamic range, and you don't want to do that. Just turn the volume fader down a bit so it sits well when listening at a low to medium volume.

Indekka wrote:
And you are saying i should cut a little bit of the lows out of the bass synth at the start of the track correct?

No, that's what I thought initially...that it was a mid bass, but since it's the main bass you're better off leaving it, but consider cutting it around 196 Hz.

Indekka wrote:
The claps are gated with reverb. On the parts where the claps clap in a row of 3.. there is some gated white noise.. You think maybe I should just gate the white noise on all the claps to give it more space? Give me some examples of what i should do because as it stands the claps are actually two layers of the same clap, one on top of the other, with one clap having a gated reverb effect to give it more space.. I think you might be talking about the actual sucking effect that is occuring in the claps which i noticed, and that annoyed me too. unfortunately that "sucking" sound is rooted in the actual clap recording. The remedy for that would be to change the clap all together which im fine with.

Yeah I mean the actual sound of it isn't to my taste. It's just too short and thin.

Indekka wrote:
On the hats you are saying I should make them shuffle more, with more rhythm, because right now they feel a bit "empty" and dont occupy enough space right? I was getting that feeling when listening to the track right now also. Also, if the hats weren't loud enough.. its because im mixing on Yamaha Mdsp5's or whatever they are called and they have a horrible nack for being extremely bright on the high ends. Can't wait to get some krk rokit 8's :P.

Yeah, just add more, because I can hardly hear them.

And KRK RP8s wouldn't be my first choice...

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Don't limit or compress your mixdown until mastering; leave the master channel alone.
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Indekka
PostPosted: 03 October 2010 - 23:34:46 (024)  Reply with quote
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Well i have a $600 budget.. Are there monitors that you think are better for that price Atlantis?
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Atlantis_AR
PostPosted: 04 October 2010 - 07:13:30 (342)  Reply with quote
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Indekka wrote:
Well i have a $600 budget.. Are there monitors that you think are better for that price Atlantis?

I would start at the top of your budget and work your way down. Although I haven't heard the new RP8G2, the RP8 sounded nothing like monitors. I don't know how you could monitor anything accurately on them. I know they're probably out of your budget, but have you considered the Adam A5X, or, closer to your budget, the Adam A3X?

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Don't limit or compress your mixdown until mastering; leave the master channel alone.
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varroa
PostPosted: 04 October 2010 - 07:24:45 (350)  Reply with quote
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Indekka wrote:
Varroa, if you are being sarcastic...kewl??? haha, not really :P , but please give me a detailed description of what you heard in terms of flaws. I've listened to your stuff and it sounds good, so i know you have experience with this stuff. It would help speed up my mixing and that whole process of getting things to sit well together if you could elaborate, if you saw it possible.


Fair enough lol

first off, your kick is all wrong, try to find something a bit fatter with more high frequencies.. it sounds like you really low passed it or something, you need those highs for that *punch*

the track gets pretty boring really fast, the arrangement could work if you really beefed up your sounds and worked in some automation. it sounds like you've got the ideas in your head, but having trouble communicating them -- you'll get better in time grin2

mix-wise -- it doesn't really sound like you've got much low-mid going on, just a muddy sub bass

also, 1:00 when the kick comes back in -- sounds like you've filtered it up, what i usually do with this kind of thing is just make the midi note shorter so you don't get any of the kick's bass, just that clicking punch


anyways, i haven't read any of what atlantis_ar wrote, but listen to him bc he knows what he's talking about, and has provided me with an endless amount of help grin
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varroa Portfolio: www.varroae.com SOUNDCLOUD: www.soundcloud.com/djvarroa
Indekka
PostPosted: 04 October 2010 - 08:08:34 (380)  Reply with quote
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hey Atlantis. I just looked up some Adams and some reviews on Gearslutz and KVRaudio. Based on my price range, I could get a pair of A3x's which seem a bit small (then again my current studio set up literally has me sitting roughly 3 feet away from each speaker), however at that same price I could get a pair of A5s which are bigger (not the A5x's). It would appear that one is a slightly newer model, but the original A series appears to have gotten rave reviews. Any advice?
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Atlantis_AR
PostPosted: 04 October 2010 - 10:12:22 (466)  Reply with quote
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Indekka wrote:
hey Atlantis. I just looked up some Adams and some reviews on Gearslutz and KVRaudio. Based on my price range, I could get a pair of A3x's which seem a bit small (then again my current studio set up literally has me sitting roughly 3 feet away from each speaker), however at that same price I could get a pair of A5s which are bigger (not the A5x's). It would appear that one is a slightly newer model, but the original A series appears to have gotten rave reviews. Any advice?

I have to be honest here and say I've never heard Adams, let alone a ribbon tweeter, but I've only read good things about them. And now that they have these new entry level monitors I thought they'd make for a good choice over the RP8s everyone seems to get. I wish I could hear them, but, being in New Zealand, I can only listen to a few selected monitors in the cheaper price range.

You're right though, 60 Hz will be too high for mixing dance music (A3X). It seems the A5X features X-ART, with I believe an extended frequency response. Personally I would save up for the newer model as I'm sure there'd be a lot of improvements that'd make your purchase more worthwhile.

But, maybe you can look at something else. How about the KRK VXT4? Down to only 56 Hz though so you end up with the same problem. You'll need at least 50 Hz to get an accurate bass response with dance music. But I'd choose quality over woofer size any day. The Yamaha HS80M would be another choice, but I haven't heard any of these monitors to tell you my preference. You'll have to go to a store and listen for yourself. If you're not sure what to listen for, pick some expensive monitors and see which cheaper monitors convey their sound the best and let you hear what you want to hear.

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Indekka
PostPosted: 05 October 2010 - 09:26:08 (434)  Reply with quote
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thanks for the feedback varroa. You were def right. I got to listening to the kick. It wasn't "fat" enough. I decreased the high pass filter on it to about 30-40 hz slightly and increased it slightly between 50 and 200hz along with some other modifications that psychoacoustically made the kick rounder, but according to eq would not make it round. Kind of weird how there are illusions of the eyes, and illusions of the ears.

The track is going to get beefed up, that was a demo of my current work in progress, just so i could get the critcism now, which in effect would decrease the amount of things I have wrong with the track when its finished. I'm gonna be adding in more fx, and a couple more layers, and add more movement and energy into the first breakdown.

Just found out how much I don't like ArtsAcoustic reverb.. wayyyyy too metallic sounding.
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varroa
PostPosted: 05 October 2010 - 18:19:03 (804)  Reply with quote
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Indekka wrote:
thanks for the feedback varroa. You were def right. I got to listening to the kick. It wasn't "fat" enough. I decreased the high pass filter on it to about 30-40 hz slightly and increased it slightly between 50 and 200hz along with some other modifications that psychoacoustically made the kick rounder, but according to eq would not make it round. Kind of weird how there are illusions of the eyes, and illusions of the ears.


not sure what you meant, sounds morel ike you're fiddling with EQ
the spots i like to hit for a kick are the tiniest bit around 100-200hz, then a bit at 800-1000hz for that punch, and then a tiny amount at the high freq.. for the most part though, you shouldn't have to do much processing to your kick, as unless you're synthesizing it yourself, sample packs do all that processing for you

Indekka wrote:

Just found out how much I don't like ArtsAcoustic reverb.. wayyyyy too metallic sounding.


JUST BC SEAN TYAS USES IT DOESNT MEAN YOU HAVE TO! grin grin grin
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varroa Portfolio: www.varroae.com SOUNDCLOUD: www.soundcloud.com/djvarroa
Indekka
PostPosted: 06 October 2010 - 02:21:55 (140)  Reply with quote
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honestly, looking at my kick. I had to do a lot of eqing to it. It seems like in terms of where your track ends up going, no matter what, you will more often than not have to eq your kick in some way to make it sit better in the mix. Thats just my current impression. But ive only been producing for 4 months with no previous musical experience. I'm sure that'll change each month that passes as im averaging about 4 hours a day of fiddling with this stuff.
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Atlantis_AR
PostPosted: 06 October 2010 - 03:07:36 (171)  Reply with quote
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Listening to the kick, the key frequency ranges are around 50-60 Hz for the bottom (if you boost at 49 Hz you'll also target the G1 note, which could be beneficial; around 175 Hz for the punch (which you'll probably want to take down, also to make room for the bass); and the upper mids (start between 3 and 5 kHz) to give the kick attack (or remove any low-pass filters if you have them, because you really need more high-frequency attack. At least that's how I look at it, but it's not the greatest kick sample to start off with. Also be wary of high-pass filters because they can take essential 'body' or 'support' out, so make sure you know what you're doing.

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