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Bass How does my mix sound - HeadspaceEnd mix
PassiePassion
PostPosted: 18 September 2010 - 04:33:37 (231)  Reply with quote
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I read that a couple of members here dislike that off kick baseline
I really use it in a lot of cases as i think it belongs to trance
When i use different bases than the song feels more Club like to me
Cos it gives more swing instead of a steady off kick base
So i feel that swing and start to add grooves ending with a Club song
While i want it to be Trance

But for me music is an adventure full of fun
So i thought i'd just give it a try to see if i can keep drive in the song
Yet use different timings on the base line

Next to that i'll use a completely different way of mixing on this song
Normally i put the kick at 90% of max vol and build all up around the kick
On this song i left the kick at 40% of max
Did the base on 60% and even the closed hihat is on 50%
So an open air mix to have a good mastering mix to play around with
So ANTI loudness mixing you could call it i guess

Your input would be much appreciated on this try out
What do you think about the mix ?
And what do you think about the new version compared with the original idea ?

Original Idea-Topic 160 MP3

Youtube link


- Added new tunes , changed loads of notes
- Took some delay and rev away from the lead
- Took some base away with the eq @ 110 slider

If your new to music making
See picture kick and base do not have volume automation
Yet you see the wave grow in volume and see vu jumping on kick
So loud kick in natural mix is not needed
If i put compression on hard mix you don't hear much
With this mix you hear the compressor working well
Thats why i create this open mix to get best result when i do mastering
No compression on main output and no eq eighter

http://soundcloud.com/passiepassion/garden-of-eden-passiepassion-end-air-mix-test

This is true picture of waveform


Youtube link


Kept the pict to have indicator of which switch to move if needed


Last edited by PassiePassion on 21 September 2010 - 07:48:13 (366); edited 4 times in total

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jkl27
PostPosted: 18 September 2010 - 10:54:58 (496)  Reply with quote
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wow wow wow bass? #wasteoftime

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Raveren
PostPosted: 18 September 2010 - 11:43:23 (530)  Reply with quote
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yes, please... it's spelled "bass," not "base" . . .
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PassiePassion
PostPosted: 19 September 2010 - 01:30:32 (104)  Reply with quote
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@ Raveren

Yeah i know spelling checker don't red line that one
I don't care much bout spelling to be honest
Even song titles are mis spelled on some song art
When its commercial then i'll follow the grammatical rules
But here i feel free so don't check anything spelling wise
Thanks for the tip though wink

Yep your right jkl27

But i like the base melody so not a complete loss of time
I do have a real hard time getting used to my new headphones
They have no limit

On my headphones the overdriven basses sound just fine
Today at daytime i could check the sound on speakers and yep waay to much
Connected my old cheap headphones again to do a normal mix
Its messed up one side falls away that sux

But it looks like i'll be buying a new cheap headphones
These AKG K 271 MK II headphones i can't use yet
Cos the sound they give is completely different from my old phones
Do need the phones cos i work most at night in an old house
Proper version is below


Last edited by PassiePassion on 19 September 2010 - 13:27:57 (602); edited 2 times in total

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Atlantis_AR
PostPosted: 19 September 2010 - 06:13:06 (300)  Reply with quote
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I think you're asking too much of us by reading all that and devoting so much of our time. Can't you narrow it down into a few questions and take it one step at a time?

I haven't read all of your original post and I've listened to the last sample only. It sounds fine with the kick at first only the hats sound muffled (it's low quality MP3 too of course) and maybe too quiet. Everything is also almost mono, but this could change later.

The bass at 0:27 doesn't sound very clear. You could filter the fundamental and below out a bit and seeing how that brings out the harmonics. I'm just having trouble figuring whether it is 62 Hz (B) or 65 Hz (C). Is that also a slight stereo delay you have on it? It could definitely sound more centred, whereas the rest of the mix could sound more open, and the treble instruments can be turned up, although the hat at 1:22 is probably sounding fine, and by 2:03 it actually does sound fine.

Nice, clean mixdown in terms of dynamics though. Did you normalise it after rendering?

Yeah, just filter out the low bass on the bass instrument and you're on the right track. No need to be getting new headphones.

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PassiePassion
PostPosted: 19 September 2010 - 08:20:58 (389)  Reply with quote
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Thanks Atlantis_AR

I'll give those points a good look
Nope i got no eq and no limiting nor compression on the main out
Even most VSTi are without eq and no compression on anything
That was my whole goal with this topic
Creating a total raw mix to improve from scratch [Should be WAV btw not mp3]
Mono thing i don't understand as i use all VSTi and a drumkit from VEC2
So should not be any mono sound in the mix ?
But i'll check the sequencer to see if i got one of the tracks on mono wink

Got so much text cos i am buisy on it
So i edit the text constantly when i change things

Thought it would be interesting to read by others who come here to analyze
I can edit things away if i fix them
But then the topic has no value to who ever reads it later on

But i'll edit a bunch of the text away and change the title
Cos i'm further on with the song now
And happy with the base as in what melody it plays
Plus i removed the extra layer as that was too much

Thought it would be interesting for newbees to post my song from the early start
I hardly get replies on my 'Finished" works
So figured i needed to put up songs in an earlier stage of production
That way the people will hear lots that still has to be done
So i might get more replies that way to learn something new here
Thats after all why i post my music here

But i'll first finish it now to get a complete version
And then i'll remove the old vids and will up the latest mix.
I took a lot of drums away already from the test version
Hopefully the ones you were commenting about
Next version i wont take sounds away
so people can comment to improve that one like you did wink

THANKS a lot THATS what i'm looking for thumbsup
Will edit title to End MiX ones i embed the new version
To make it clear to you when the final version is up
Thanks again for your help

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Atlantis_AR
PostPosted: 19 September 2010 - 08:59:13 (416)  Reply with quote
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PassiePassion wrote:
Nope i got no eq and no limiting nor compression on the main out

Well if that's the case then you certainly want to lower the master fader a bit to allow room for other instruments and later mastering.

PassiePassion wrote:
[Should be WAV btw not mp3]

Well, no, because uploading to YouTube compresses it to MP4 or whatever. I have saved the video to MP4 with KeepVid and it's definitely compressed.

PassiePassion wrote:
Mono thing i don't understand as i use all VSTi and a drumkit from VEC2
So should not be any mono sound in the mix ?

I mean panning mostly - pan sounds around the spectrum.

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PassiePassion
PostPosted: 19 September 2010 - 13:07:25 (588)  Reply with quote
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As for wav on youtube

Think thats not youtube but movie maker
Downloaded an 120 mb MP4 song some times from youtube
And then the quality was great

So i figure its movie maker cos that creates the vid on a certain mb
I made a movie maker container of 99 mb
The wav is about 88 , picture 100 k
So should be uncompressed this way wink

Edit
Original Info cleaned and posted the embed on 1st post

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Atlantis_AR
PostPosted: 19 September 2010 - 14:18:29 (637)  Reply with quote
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PassiePassion wrote:
As for wav on youtube

Think thats not youtube but movie maker
Downloaded an 120 mb MP4 song some times from youtube
And then the quality was great

So i figure its movie maker cos that creates the vid on a certain mb
I made a movie maker container of 99 mb
The wav is about 88 , picture 100 k
So should be uncompressed this way wink

I'm just confused why you're uploading to YouTube to begin with, a site for video yet you're only working with audio. Most people here use SoundCloud, which will probably also compress the upload. The fact that you have a local WAV and then uploading that to YouTube doesn't mean it stays in that format - it gets compressed so the filesize is manageable.

Anyway, moving on to the new version, do you mean you took some 110 Hz out of the bass instrument? That's a graphic EQ though which doesn't give you much control. Try to find a paragraphic EQ instead. Otherwise try lowering 60 Hz instead. Not too much, but I think reducing it a bit will help the bass instrument cut through more, at least when you turn it up a bit afterwards.

I still think the hats anything else but the kick, bass and lead could be panned more.

Otherwise it's starting to sound better. Still quite percussive though, in that the kick, hat and clap are really the loudest parts, whereas I would like to hear the melodic elements (with the exception of the lead) a bit better.

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PassiePassion
PostPosted: 19 September 2010 - 15:14:40 (676)  Reply with quote
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I use youtube cos then i can embed my music
And i can create playlists to play many songs in a row [Background music while reading]
Plus everybody uses youtube so will be able to hear my music
Nobody ever comes on soundclick or myspace even
I bet most non musicians don't even know soundcloud

Sites like that are a hype and then move to a new hype
First everybody was using myspace now its soundcloud next year Hyper sound haha
Youtube is and will probably always stay
I got Epilepsy a couple of years back
Might grow just as old as everyone else
But at every seizure there is a chance i'll die , cos i stop breathing while under an attack
Am disabled for work too for 3 years now
Was always afraid of copiers cos some hardcore idiots copied my track long ago
But cos i got ill and started to realize life was not in my control anymore
I started to up my music to the tube
So it hopefully would be in my power to make that endless

Still expect to become a hundred years of age incl working ears haha
But such an illness does make one think about whats important
And i've got all the time in the world now that i don't have to work anymore
So no one has to feel sorry for me eighter wink
Thats just why i up to a solid hoster like Youtube.

Will go to bed now
But will look at the things you pointed out tomorrow
Then i'll also take a look at the tutors here about compression
On the Hardware O2R compression was wicked but never went into plugins enough
Got the whole URS bundle which has various eq and compression
And Logic has loads of internal plugins too
So time to watch some vids from youtube if i can find them about mastering
Also got some warez mastering tutors that i never went into
But i'll do some watching and reading to learn some new techniques

Logic Fat EQ is adjustable but lazy me only uses URS
Cos its easier to adjust a slider then set my own range
Some musicians adore techniques cos that interests them most bout music
Always been more into creating melodies ,the creative part of music not techniques
Mostly use presets and even basic compressor setting default haha
Can make my own sounds ,even made tutors for it
But most times i'm too lazy and use presets
Cos then i can start right at creating tunes blushing

So time for me to catch up now that i have the time for it
So thanks for the given advises
Time to sleep now wink

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PassiePassion
PostPosted: 20 September 2010 - 13:37:30 (609)  Reply with quote
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Done some updates
Sounds pretty nice on the pro headphones
But a bit jumpy [punchy] on my speakers
Not too loud but like when you tip on a mic with your finger
Thats why i gave the kick some more body that helped a bit

Also found a wav host where i didn't need to login
So i got a link for a wav for you
Click the link and you can play it as wav too wink

Changes
Added a lil eq on the master
And a compressor & eq on the kick to give a lil more body

0;00
Added a new hihat at the start to give the song more action
Beter for mix in i think this way and put that closed hat you spoke of softer

0;27
Replaced the baseline melody by a more suiting timing for new hats [more nrg]
And added a compressor to the base
And moved timing of whole base melody forward [Sequence Delay 20+]
Gives a better position together with the rest of the song

Moved up volumes of
[0;27] Air synth [solo there]
[0;41] Ahh synth [playing together with Air synth]
[1;24] Eden dream tune
[1;35] Horse Saw ,
[1;50] Hall String

Wav
http://soundcloud.com/passiepassion/garden-of-eden-passiepassion-end-upd-1

http://www.toofiles.com/en/oip/audios/wav/gardenofeden-endupd1.html

Youtube link


Last edited by PassiePassion on 21 September 2010 - 07:45:30 (364); edited 3 times in total

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Voci
PostPosted: 20 September 2010 - 14:00:07 (625)  Reply with quote
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About soundcloud being a 'hype', and Youtube the shit, because everyone will hear it.

Are you in a state where you're music is amazing? Or do you want to improve first? Probably the second, because else you would not be here, you would be busy with your contracts.

For this purpose, soundcloud-ish sites are much better. Get to learn fellow producers, give feedback to them, they might start recognizing your name and start giving your tracks feedback too. Get to know them. I guess thats the best way to go.

On youtube, random people will say "you suck" or "i love it" but that aint worth anything...

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Voci thnx t.nu for all cool people I got to know :)
Atlantis_AR
PostPosted: 20 September 2010 - 14:36:17 (650)  Reply with quote
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PassiePassion wrote:
Also found a wav host where i didn't need to login
So i got a link for a wav for you
Click the link and you can play it as wav too wink

Unfortunately I'm in New Zealand which means all downloads are capped, so I'll have to go with the YouTube version.

PassiePassion wrote:
Changes
Added a lil eq on the master

Why? The point of mixing is to control things in the mix, not on the master, which is left for mastering.

Anyway, kick is a little low on bass; try shelving the bass slightly.

The bass still doens't sound right with the kick for some reason. Maybe you took a bit too much bass out, but I'm having trouble even hearing any change. Making the kick bassier might help, but the bass instrument itself just doesn't have enough low end. Like maybe it needs the harmonics lowered or there needs to be more of a sub 50 Hz bass. Try muting everything but the bass and getting it to sound as good and as bassy as you want as possible. Then add the kick and work around that.

The hats sound a lot less bright now, and certainly too dull.

The pad synths sound a bit too loud now, especially at 1:50. Of course it all depends on where you want to go with the mix...

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SecondHand
PostPosted: 20 September 2010 - 15:09:46 (673)  Reply with quote
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Tip #1 : Use soundcloud - it's better in quality and you'll get better feedback thumbsup

Tip #2 : Offbeat bass sucks. Not because it actually sucks, but because of the fact that is has been used over and over and over and over and overrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr again. It's really cool for the first one thousand tracks. After that it kinda loses its vibe. Time to come up with something new mate thumbsup
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Voci
PostPosted: 20 September 2010 - 16:32:23 (730)  Reply with quote
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SecondHand wrote:
Tip #1 : Use soundcloud - it's better in quality and you'll get better feedback thumbsup

Tip #2 : Offbeat bass sucks. Not because it actually sucks, but because of the fact that is has been used over and over and over and over and overrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr again. It's really cool for the first one thousand tracks. After that it kinda loses its vibe. Time to come up with something new mate thumbsup


Don't really like your second tip. There are only a few rythms that you can choose of really. They all have been used before.

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