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How low to cut "low" ?
DreambreaX
PostPosted: 17 September 2010 - 17:57:16 (789)  Reply with quote
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In dance music, we know that -40hz is not important, so i usually cut the sub bass, and all kind of bass -40hz

it sounds well in the studio flat monitor (Focal professional division).

when i play my mastered music in my car, it sounds so muddy. the LOW is still high. muddy. (not like other people trance music, it seems the rolling bass frequency are mid)

my question is, in order to prevent muddy on my track, what should i do?

here are my 2 questions:

1) how low should i cut the frequency bass? should i cut the bass to -80hz? what are the ideal of cutting the low frequency of bass?


2) how low should i cut the low frequency during "mastering" a track? -40hz? or more??
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ConfuZion
PostPosted: 17 September 2010 - 18:03:01 (793)  Reply with quote
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Maybe you just have your lows turned too high in your car ?

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DreambreaX
PostPosted: 17 September 2010 - 18:09:54 (798)  Reply with quote
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ConfuZion wrote:
Maybe you just have your lows turned too high in your car ?


other people music that played in my car are not as muddy as me.

i've always tried other people music and my own music in my studio monitor and in my car.
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Voci
PostPosted: 17 September 2010 - 18:10:39 (799)  Reply with quote
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DreambreaX wrote:
In dance music, we know that -40hz is not important, so i usually cut the sub bass, and all kind of bass -40hz

it sounds well in the studio flat monitor (Focal professional division).

when i play my mastered music in my car, it sounds so muddy. the LOW is still high. muddy. (not like other people trance music, it seems the rolling bass frequency are mid)

my question is, in order to prevent muddy on my track, what should i do?

here are my 2 questions:

1) how low should i cut the frequency bass? should i cut the bass to -80hz? what are the ideal of cutting the low frequency of bass?


2) how low should i cut the low frequency during "mastering" a track? -40hz? or more??


I believe -40 is quite drastic.

The lower end makes people 'feel' the music, literly. So thats quite important too.

I think 40 hz is too high to just cut everything there.

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Duski
PostPosted: 17 September 2010 - 18:40:27 (819)  Reply with quote
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I too think 40 hz is a bit high, rather go around 30 hz.

In any case, your bass problems are more likely because of conflicting sounds in lower midrange, from melodies / bass / bassdrum / snare / etc. Also that thing is just a compromise between warmth / clarity, more warmness comes with muddiness, more clarity - less warmth / even harsh, unnatural sound.

Try to find out which sounds you can cut higher than you do now (at least when bass / bassdrum etc is playing, they "fill" up the lower space). Most of the time melodies need little lower space. You could try to take out one sound at a time and check clarity again. If bass / bassdrum alone sound messy, then you need to fix that, etc. Or if your sounds do not have enough dynamics left, things can get muddy when limiter / compressors start working overtime.

Always make sure to cut everything below 20-30hz, sometimes some synths make _very_ deep noise for some reason (bugs or whatnot) or some bassdrums have unnecessary frequencies with them. You might not hear them, but it can introduce problems.
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Atlantis_AR
PostPosted: 17 September 2010 - 19:14:38 (843)  Reply with quote
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DreambreaX wrote:
In dance music, we know that -40hz is not important, so i usually cut the sub bass, and all kind of bass -40hz

Is it? It most certainly is! We're quite capable of hearing (feeling) down to 20 Hz...

DreambreaX wrote:
it sounds well in the studio flat monitor (Focal professional division).

Down to what frequency is that?

DreambreaX wrote:
when i play my mastered music in my car, it sounds so muddy. the LOW is still high. muddy. (not like other people trance music, it seems the rolling bass frequency are mid)

my question is, in order to prevent muddy on my track, what should i do?

This depends so much on the track in question it's impossible to answer without hearing a sample.

DreambreaX wrote:
here are my 2 questions:

1) how low should i cut the frequency bass? should i cut the bass to -80hz? what are the ideal of cutting the low frequency of bass?

This depends on how the frequencies roll off before you go about cutting it.

DreambreaX wrote:
2) how low should i cut the low frequency during "mastering" a track? -40hz? or more??

Again, this depends on how the mixdown sounds before you go about cutting it. You don't just cut it without there being a problem in the first place, so you have to listen and analyse before you make that decision...
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tranceit
PostPosted: 17 September 2010 - 19:57:23 (873)  Reply with quote
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I actually had this exact problem.

Sounded ok on monitors but the subbass was overwhelming on my car's system.

*I think
what you're looking for is a tighter bass sound that doesn't go all over the place.

The answer is not to low cut the bass. It is probably acceptable to cut below 30hz, but cutting more lows won't solve your problem.

The fix is pretty simple, you have to reduce the dynamic range of the bass, but not by so much that it sounds like a squashed mess. Try throwing a limiter or compressor on it and look for something like 3-5 db of gain reduction. The overall sound should be tighter. Then play it in your car again and let me know how it sounds
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jkl27
PostPosted: 17 September 2010 - 20:49:59 (909)  Reply with quote
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grin2 shit car's soundssystems
low cut 30hz
mud area 100-800 hz

heh grin2 and maybe your monitors does not have basses? because some KRK for example, need subbwoofer to reproduce basses happy i guess that is your situation

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DreambreaX
PostPosted: 17 September 2010 - 23:07:16 (005)  Reply with quote
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tranceit wrote:
I actually had this exact problem.

Sounded ok on monitors but the subbass was overwhelming on my car's system.

*I think
what you're looking for is a tighter bass sound that doesn't go all over the place.

The answer is not to low cut the bass. It is probably acceptable to cut below 30hz, but cutting more lows won't solve your problem.

The fix is pretty simple, you have to reduce the dynamic range of the bass, but not by so much that it sounds like a squashed mess. Try throwing a limiter or compressor on it and look for something like 3-5 db of gain reduction. The overall sound should be tighter. Then play it in your car again and let me know how it sounds



i believe u have overcome my problem. can u explain by "reducing the dynamic range of the bass?"

is it reducing the volume? or cutting the frequency? can u explain to me?

thank you so much
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Raveren
PostPosted: 18 September 2010 - 00:06:35 (046)  Reply with quote
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DreambreaX wrote:
tranceit wrote:
I actually had this exact problem.

Sounded ok on monitors but the subbass was overwhelming on my car's system.

*I think
what you're looking for is a tighter bass sound that doesn't go all over the place.

The answer is not to low cut the bass. It is probably acceptable to cut below 30hz, but cutting more lows won't solve your problem.

The fix is pretty simple, you have to reduce the dynamic range of the bass, but not by so much that it sounds like a squashed mess. Try throwing a limiter or compressor on it and look for something like 3-5 db of gain reduction. The overall sound should be tighter. Then play it in your car again and let me know how it sounds



i believe u have overcome my problem. can u explain by "reducing the dynamic range of the bass?"

is it reducing the volume? or cutting the frequency? can u explain to me?

thank you so much


He means by putting a compressor on it. Or a multiband compressor in this case. Compressors reduce dynamic range.

I don't really know if this is your problem, how about you post a sample?
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PassiePassion
PostPosted: 18 September 2010 - 01:27:34 (102)  Reply with quote
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Cut out base ?
What about the reece base in the music ?

I love base and never cut the base out completely
Only get some of the lowest eq away from the kick
But i do that to give the reece more room at the lowest base part
If you filter all low away then you wont hear any base
And you certainly wont feel it.

Imo base is very important in house as that makes the sound full
And i never got any reply here that my song had too much base
Reduced the kick of some songs cos i thought they were too loud

Am curious about your sample and the replies from the members
Might be interesting to see what you mean
I'll up my current new idea for my new track too
Some said they disliked of beat bases to me they belong to trance
For club i did use other timings but it made trance too soft
But i'm making a different baseline on my song to see how that functions
Will take me a week i guess cos i'm not used to other base timings on trance
Made some now but am not yet happy as it turned into club now imo
All the drive and aggressiveness is gone and it sounds asif bpm is lower
But looking at this topic i fear that i'm over producing again haha
I'm even layering a reece base thats already growling like a lion
To try and get back some lost power

I love base but perhaps a bit too much if i read this topic
So very interesting to read more about it
I'll be upping a test too in a hour or so which might interest you too
Cos it's also about base

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http://www.freewebs.com/websoundtutors/index.htm [Free Musical Tutors]
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Atlantis_AR
PostPosted: 18 September 2010 - 02:48:17 (158)  Reply with quote
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Compressing the bass range won't necessarily fix your problem, but it can help to control it. It's at times like these I really wish you could provide a sample because I'd hate to see you compress the life out of it.
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Blue_Boi
PostPosted: 18 September 2010 - 04:34:30 (232)  Reply with quote
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PassiePassion wrote:
Cut out base ?
What about the reece base in the music ?

I love base and never cut the base out completely
Only get some of the lowest eq away from the kick
But i do that to give the reece more room at the lowest base part
If you filter all low away then you wont hear any base
And you certainly wont feel it.

Imo base is very important in house as that makes the sound full
And i never got any reply here that my song had too much base
Reduced the kick of some songs cos i thought they were too loud

Am curious about your sample and the replies from the members
Might be interesting to see what you mean
I'll up my current new idea for my new track too
Some said they disliked of beat bases to me they belong to trance
For club i did use other timings but it made trance too soft
But i'm making a different baseline on my song to see how that functions
Will take me a week i guess cos i'm not used to other base timings on trance
Made some now but am not yet happy as it turned into club now imo
All the drive and aggressiveness is gone and it sounds asif bpm is lower
But looking at this topic i fear that i'm over producing again haha
I'm even layering a reece base thats already growling like a lion
To try and get back some lost power

I love base but perhaps a bit too much if i read this topic
So very interesting to read more about it
I'll be upping a test too in a hour or so which might interest you too
Cos it's also about base


You usually cut ALL frequencies below 45Hz... The reason is that the frequencies below 45 Hz are useless and will disturb the mix...

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PassiePassion
PostPosted: 18 September 2010 - 05:05:22 (253)  Reply with quote
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@ Blue_Boi

Please check my examples in my topic
And what do you mean by cutting it down on a certain range
I've been making music over ten years
But was never focused on sound as much as the members here
To me making music has always been about the creative fun

So i don't know much about how techniques are called
I might already do what you mean
But don't understand that cutting of a certain range

I play a melody and record it with the sequencer
If its not present enough in the mix then i'll compress it
And if a lead has too much base than i eq some base away from the lead
But i never create a baseline and completely eq a certain range away

The EQ on my base

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Raveren
PostPosted: 18 September 2010 - 11:41:37 (528)  Reply with quote
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Posts: 274
Blue_Boi wrote:
PassiePassion wrote:
Cut out base ?
What about the reece base in the music ?

I love base and never cut the base out completely
Only get some of the lowest eq away from the kick
But i do that to give the reece more room at the lowest base part
If you filter all low away then you wont hear any base
And you certainly wont feel it.

Imo base is very important in house as that makes the sound full
And i never got any reply here that my song had too much base
Reduced the kick of some songs cos i thought they were too loud

Am curious about your sample and the replies from the members
Might be interesting to see what you mean
I'll up my current new idea for my new track too
Some said they disliked of beat bases to me they belong to trance
For club i did use other timings but it made trance too soft
But i'm making a different baseline on my song to see how that functions
Will take me a week i guess cos i'm not used to other base timings on trance
Made some now but am not yet happy as it turned into club now imo
All the drive and aggressiveness is gone and it sounds asif bpm is lower
But looking at this topic i fear that i'm over producing again haha
I'm even layering a reece base thats already growling like a lion
To try and get back some lost power

I love base but perhaps a bit too much if i read this topic
So very interesting to read more about it
I'll be upping a test too in a hour or so which might interest you too
Cos it's also about base


You usually cut ALL frequencies below 45Hz... The reason is that the frequencies below 45 Hz are useless and will disturb the mix...


People can hear well below 45 Hz, it is not useless, although too much "can" disturb your mix (so can anythin else). Cut (and by cut I mean "remove") around 25 or 20 Hz.
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